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	<title>Comments on: On the matter of value</title>
	<atom:link href="http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value</link>
	<description>The personal blog of Jayvie Canono: on WordPress, Politics, Design and Life.</description>
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		<title>By: Alden Torres</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7603</link>
		<dc:creator>Alden Torres</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 19:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7603</guid>
		<description>Hi, I&#039;m the guy behind Light SEO (another AIOSEOP fork). I&#039;m in the middle of a strange situation regarding the WordPress.org Extend hosting. The plugin suddenly was pulled out from the public directory and it seems that it&#039;s not the first similar situation. Total silent to forum posts and emails that I sent.
See: http://wordpress.org/support/topic/330744?replies=5
Just to inform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;m the guy behind Light SEO (another AIOSEOP fork). I&#8217;m in the middle of a strange situation regarding the WordPress.org Extend hosting. The plugin suddenly was pulled out from the public directory and it seems that it&#8217;s not the first similar situation. Total silent to forum posts and emails that I sent.</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://wordpress.org/support/topic/330744?replies=5" rel="nofollow">http://wordpress.org/support/topic/330744?replies=5</a></p>
<p>Just to inform.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7506</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7506</guid>
		<description>@Andreas: Barry from the thread above is one of the people who work at WP Plugins. Like he said, they&#039;re looking at the many different suggestions out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andreas: Barry from the thread above is one of the people who work at WP Plugins. Like he said, they&#8217;re looking at the many different suggestions out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Nurbo</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7505</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Nurbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7505</guid>
		<description>Well I used the regular price not new year discount.
Personally I would prefer one time fee or yearly and still get support and updates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I used the regular price not new year discount.<br />
Personally I would prefer one time fee or yearly and still get support and updates.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cook</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7504</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7504</guid>
		<description>@Andreas your math is off a bit. The annual price is $468, not $828 but that&#039;s still outrageous when you consider it&#039;s a set it &amp; forget it plugin so even if you need support you shouldn&#039;t need it for more than a month MAX.
I&#039;ve just been alerted to a forked version of the AIOSEOP plugin without the ads.
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/light-seo/
I haven&#039;t checked it out yet but assuming you don&#039;t need support this would seem to provide the same functionality of AIOSEOP Pro.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andreas your math is off a bit. The annual price is $468, not $828 but that&#8217;s still outrageous when you consider it&#8217;s a set it &amp; forget it plugin so even if you need support you shouldn&#8217;t need it for more than a month MAX.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just been alerted to a forked version of the AIOSEOP plugin without the ads.</p>
<p><a href="http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/light-seo/" rel="nofollow">http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/light-seo/</a></p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t checked it out yet but assuming you don&#8217;t need support this would seem to provide the same functionality of AIOSEOP Pro.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Nurbo</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7503</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Nurbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7503</guid>
		<description>*** Disclaimer. I&#039;m not 100% this is how it works ***
@Jay Yes Red Hat etc uses the support model but I think the pricing model most use on WPPlugins is not very good. Red Hat gives you 1 year support and updates for $80 if you go with basic desktop package. Thats support for an Operating System.
I have no problem with the WPPlugins model but most of the prices are totally absurd really. Sure if people pay for it good for the plugin author. But really, if you buy subscription you&#039;ll never get your moneys worth. 1 year of updates and support for the AIOSEOP Pro pack is if I understand everything correctly $828 with regular price. All I can respond to that is, huh? None of the plugins pricing are reasonable if one go with subscription. Not that I&#039;ve understood how you even do that =).
Plz correct me if I&#039;ve misunderstood anything because it all seems so absurd really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*** Disclaimer. I&#8217;m not 100% this is how it works ***<br />
@Jay Yes Red Hat etc uses the support model but I think the pricing model most use on WPPlugins is not very good. Red Hat gives you 1 year support and updates for $80 if you go with basic desktop package. Thats support for an Operating System.</p>
<p>I have no problem with the WPPlugins model but most of the prices are totally absurd really. Sure if people pay for it good for the plugin author. But really, if you buy subscription you&#8217;ll never get your moneys worth. 1 year of updates and support for the AIOSEOP Pro pack is if I understand everything correctly $828 with regular price. All I can respond to that is, huh? None of the plugins pricing are reasonable if one go with subscription. Not that I&#8217;ve understood how you even do that =).</p>
<p>Plz correct me if I&#8217;ve misunderstood anything because it all seems so absurd really.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Omneo</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7502</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Omneo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7502</guid>
		<description>Hello All,
I&#039;d just like to follow up and say that whilst I said I was annoyed re: lack of access to updates for the pro version.  I don&#039;t feel I was ripped off.  If I have any real cause to be annoyed it&#039;s with myself for not checking more closely that updates weren&#039;t included.
As it stands I&#039;m happy with my purchase; OK so I may miss out on some updates but I&#039;m not overly sure that I&#039;ll miss much as I, possibly naively, don&#039;t think that between versions of WP there will be much that changes. Obviously when WP 3.0 comes along I&#039;d expect updates to the plugin and at that time I&#039;ll consider either updating or reverting back to the free version.
As Jay mentions, it&#039;s a new process and both the WP Plugins site and the plugin developers are probably finding their feet in getting a model that suits everyone.  It&#039;s nice to hear from Barry that alternatives are going to be offered but as a wiser man than me once said, &quot;You can please some people sometime but you can&#039;t please all the people all the time&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello All,</p>
<p>I&#8217;d just like to follow up and say that whilst I said I was annoyed re: lack of access to updates for the pro version.  I don&#8217;t feel I was ripped off.  If I have any real cause to be annoyed it&#8217;s with myself for not checking more closely that updates weren&#8217;t included.</p>
<p>As it stands I&#8217;m happy with my purchase; OK so I may miss out on some updates but I&#8217;m not overly sure that I&#8217;ll miss much as I, possibly naively, don&#8217;t think that between versions of WP there will be much that changes. Obviously when WP 3.0 comes along I&#8217;d expect updates to the plugin and at that time I&#8217;ll consider either updating or reverting back to the free version.</p>
<p>As Jay mentions, it&#8217;s a new process and both the WP Plugins site and the plugin developers are probably finding their feet in getting a model that suits everyone.  It&#8217;s nice to hear from Barry that alternatives are going to be offered but as a wiser man than me once said, &#8220;You can please some people sometime but you can&#8217;t please all the people all the time&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7501</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 21:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7501</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone
Firstly can I congratulate Jay on a very well written post and Ben Cook for repeatedly reminding everyone that he&#039;s annoyed in every way and on every website that he can find.
wpplugins.com is very new (about 6 weeks old) and there are a lot of changes and modifications that are in-progress or planned. To say that a lot has been learnt over those 6 weeks is an understatement. Some of these changes include an increased flexibility in the pricing models that plugin authors can use (such as a one off purchase, one off purchase with upgrade, one off purchase with support and plugin purchase with lower monthly support subscription) as well as easier and more direct contact with the plugins authors.
As regards whether we should be policing the businesses of plugin authors: as I wrote in my email to Ben earlier in the week, we provide a platform for plugin authors to sell their plugins and an infrastructure to deliver the plugins, updates and support. As long as the plugins are GPL, functional and the descriptions do not mislead people we leave it to the plugin authors to run their own businesses. If a plugin is priced too highly or a consumer feels like they are being ripped off then they are unlikely to buy so why not leave it at that?
As regards to misleading people, the plugin most often mentioned is accurately described on the plugins page, as well as the differences in the pro version from the normal version. There is also a direct link to the authors website (via the author page) where the user can download the free version if required / wanted. I honestly don&#039;t see how things could be any clearer.
Rgds
Barry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone<br />
Firstly can I congratulate Jay on a very well written post and Ben Cook for repeatedly reminding everyone that he&#8217;s annoyed in every way and on every website that he can find.</p>
<p>wpplugins.com is very new (about 6 weeks old) and there are a lot of changes and modifications that are in-progress or planned. To say that a lot has been learnt over those 6 weeks is an understatement. Some of these changes include an increased flexibility in the pricing models that plugin authors can use (such as a one off purchase, one off purchase with upgrade, one off purchase with support and plugin purchase with lower monthly support subscription) as well as easier and more direct contact with the plugins authors.</p>
<p>As regards whether we should be policing the businesses of plugin authors: as I wrote in my email to Ben earlier in the week, we provide a platform for plugin authors to sell their plugins and an infrastructure to deliver the plugins, updates and support. As long as the plugins are GPL, functional and the descriptions do not mislead people we leave it to the plugin authors to run their own businesses. If a plugin is priced too highly or a consumer feels like they are being ripped off then they are unlikely to buy so why not leave it at that?</p>
<p>As regards to misleading people, the plugin most often mentioned is accurately described on the plugins page, as well as the differences in the pro version from the normal version. There is also a direct link to the authors website (via the author page) where the user can download the free version if required / wanted. I honestly don&#8217;t see how things could be any clearer.</p>
<p>Rgds<br />
Barry</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7500</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 20:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7500</guid>
		<description>Ben: your issue with MT is that &quot;if he knows WP Plugins do this, how could he bring himself to go with them?&quot; Well, I can&#039;t speak for him, so, if that&#039;s your stance, that&#039;s about it. You say, &quot;And Jay, just chalking it up to &#039;oh well you’re an early adopter so expect to get ripped off&#039; is ridiculous.&quot; That&#039;s a very flippant characterization but I&#039;m used to this in my six years of blogging about politics. I&#039;ve had to deal with worse. When I bought my desktop in Jan09 it had Vista on it. When I heard of 7 coming out soon, I felt like I could have held out, but I was out a computer and therefore out a source of income. I didn&#039;t complain about it.
The WP Plugins model is used by no less than Red Hat Enterprise Linux, for thousands of dollars. As soon as you quit paying, you quit getting support and updates... it doesn&#039;t matter if a major security fix or bugfix comes out the next day. &lt;strong&gt;ADDED:&lt;/strong&gt; Linux CentOS is exactly the same version as RHEL, only with no free support. You get updates, which you won&#039;t get if you stopped paying for Red Hat.
Perhaps what bothers me about your approach on this matter is that you seem to have made this into a moral issue. It&#039;s a business issue, one you have with WP Plugins and MT. Also, I suggest that in a free market like ours, if you have a better idea and people willing to be the wind in your sails, I invite you to set up a competitive solution. The best of luck to you.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben: your issue with MT is that &#8220;if he knows WP Plugins do this, how could he bring himself to go with them?&#8221; Well, I can&#8217;t speak for him, so, if that&#8217;s your stance, that&#8217;s about it. You say, &#8220;And Jay, just chalking it up to &#8216;oh well you’re an early adopter so expect to get ripped off&#8217;is ridiculous.&#8221; That&#8217;s a very flippant characterization but I&#8217;m used to this in my six years of blogging about politics. I&#8217;ve had to deal with worse. When I bought my desktop in Jan09 it had Vista on it. When I heard of 7 coming out soon, I felt like I could have held out, but I was out a computer and therefore out a source of income. I didn&#8217;t complain about it. </p>
<p>The WP Plugins model is used by no less than Red Hat Enterprise Linux, for thousands of dollars. As soon as you quit paying, you quit getting support and updates&#8230; it doesn&#8217;t matter if a major security fix or bugfix comes out the next day. <strong>ADDED:</strong> Linux CentOS is exactly the same version as RHEL, only with no free support. You get updates, which you won&#8217;t get if you stopped paying for Red Hat.</p>
<p>Perhaps what bothers me about your approach on this matter is that you seem to have made this into a moral issue. It&#8217;s a business issue, one you have with WP Plugins and MT. Also, I suggest that in a free market like ours, if you have a better idea and people willing to be the wind in your sails, I invite you to set up a competitive solution. The best of luck to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Matter Of Value - Page 3 - WordPress Tavern Forum</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7499</link>
		<dc:creator>Matter Of Value - Page 3 - WordPress Tavern Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 20:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7499</guid>
		<description>[...] the plug-in for 7 days unless you take out, what I consider, an expensive monthly subscription.    http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-...1#comment-7496  So you buy the PRO plugin &amp; as soon as the next update comes out (even if it&#039;s just a bug fix [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the plug-in for 7 days unless you take out, what I consider, an expensive monthly subscription.    <a href="http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-...1#comment-7496" rel="nofollow">http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-&#8230;1#comment-7496</a>  So you buy the PRO plugin &amp; as soon as the next update comes out (even if it&#39;s just a bug fix [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Cook</title>
		<link>http://onefinejay.com/2010/01/08/on-the-matter-of-value/comment-page-1#comment-7498</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 20:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://onefinejay.com/?p=2477#comment-7498</guid>
		<description>Mr. Omneo, that&#039;s exactly my point. Even if you think the removal of the ads is worth the $39, you&#039;re forced to continue to pay $39/mo if you want to keep it updated. Of course, you can still update the plugin for free, but then you&#039;ve just wasted the price of your initial purchase.
I know Jay isn&#039;t fond of the term, but that to me is a ripoff.
And Jay, just chalking it up to &quot;oh well you&#039;re an early adopter so expect to get ripped off&quot; is ridiculous.
You seem &amp; other of Michael&#039;s defenders keep blaming WPplugins but refuse to admit Michael is responsible for choosing to place his plugin on WPplugins.
WPplugins of course passes the buck back to the plugin developers so in the end, no one is standing behind the product and customers (like Mr. Omneo) are stuck having wasted their money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Omneo, that&#8217;s exactly my point. Even if you think the removal of the ads is worth the $39, you&#8217;re forced to continue to pay $39/mo if you want to keep it updated. Of course, you can still update the plugin for free, but then you&#8217;ve just wasted the price of your initial purchase.</p>
<p>I know Jay isn&#8217;t fond of the term, but that to me is a ripoff.</p>
<p>And Jay, just chalking it up to &#8220;oh well you&#8217;re an early adopter so expect to get ripped off&#8221; is ridiculous.</p>
<p>You seem &amp; other of Michael&#8217;s defenders keep blaming WPplugins but refuse to admit Michael is responsible for choosing to place his plugin on WPplugins.</p>
<p>WPplugins of course passes the buck back to the plugin developers so in the end, no one is standing behind the product and customers (like Mr. Omneo) are stuck having wasted their money.</p>
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